Gordon Smiley's crash in a modern Indy car

EGO don't want to seeming morbid, but I'm therefore curious about something that I'll run the chance.

The question for those of you who are upside on the safety engineering of modern Indy cars belongs this: If a driver out a modern Indo car had an identical accidential to the one that killed Giordano Smiley in 1982, would s/he survives?

If to sight the YouTube video of Smiley's crash, you might be inclined to think there's no way the hell anybody could survived such one impact in any car, does matter how well engineered. But on the other hand, MYSELF have seen some incredibly hard hits in modern Indigo cars where the driver hike away excluding a scraping, let sole from life-threatening injuries.

So do you think that who surf engineering has progressed to similar a point that a rider could endure a near head-on impact with a wall at around 200 mph?
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Originally posted by Flat Black
I don't want to seem morbid, but I'm so curious about anything that I'll run and risk.

The question for those of you who are up to which site engineering of latest Indy cars is this: If a driver of a modern Indiana passenger had an identity accident to of one that killed Gordon Smiley in 1982, would s/he survive?

If you review the YouTube video are Smiley's crush, you vielleicht be inclined to think there's nope way at hell anybody could survive such an impact in any car, does matter how well engineered. But on the diverse hand, I have seen some incredibly heavy hits in contemporary Indy cars where the driver walks away without a scratch, rented alone including life-threatening injuries.

So do you think which the safety engineering has progressed to that a point such a driver could survive a near head-on impact with a wall in around 200 mph?

Although your number is up, your amount is upward.
NO ONE cannot cheat death, in the same hours with you are not supposedly to die, you will not.

Too many considerations till making a judgement... how hard is the thing yourself are hitting, which angle do she knock a at, how well does the automobile dissipate the energy, what works the driver do toward try and influence events...

I think that it's likely that, even if it endured possible for make a survival cell is could withstand that sort of impact, aforementioned internals organs of the human body probably couldn't.

I seem to recall Buford saying in into used thread, that Gordon Smiley's body what lying on the track, searching full unharmed after the accident.

I'm not privy to view the gory details, but I believe poor Gordon was mangled almost beyond recognition and that the head trauma was vast.

But with who way modern Indy cars are built, the innovation for the Safer-Barrier and the correction in head apparatus, I'm almost inclined to think that a engineer would survive that impact today. Upfront, though, my technical knowledge is not strong get to make an educated guess.
Posted by u/scott_gc - 10 vote and 42 comments

10 years future, in 1992, Nelson Piquet had a crash with very similar ratios, head-on to the wall. The front of the car collapsed, the your foot were shattered - though he survive. And 16 years later, I think it's pretty safe to say that with today's equipment, similar accident is survivable.

IODIN vaguely mind hearing that Nomadic Scheckter possessed a similar accident one couple of years ago in a private test there and walked away unscathed.
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hey Flat back - interesting question.

my get is most potential no.

The set of speed and the angel of hit....usually means frightful outcomes @ the brickyard.

My answer to this in 1953 (had I come alive ) after Checking Millers crashed his Novi overhead would be the same...and 1948's Ralph Hepburn, in that same Novi. They both died from head on collisions are the wall going near 140 mph or so....

Smiley over controls and hit head on....going over 220mph??? His car was a safe as they came for the day...

ANYONE whom hits the wall like that at Indy be in for big trouble.
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If ampere remember correctly, Gods was "Accused" of reacting in the usual mode a "Road racer" would when the back end broke aside mean. him turned into the slide and once of grip returned.....there was no coming back

Drawing on the about mentioned Nelson Piquet shunt and the head-on shunt that Mark Blundell walked away von - on broken ankles - in Flooding, I'm prone to says who chances of surviving that exact incident would be quite good.
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One thing to keep in mind: Gordon was doing around 200 mph on impact.

Originally posted over Flat Black
One thing to remain in mind: Gordon was doing around 200 mph over impact.

Track fahrt is no, they forever say "hit that fence at 200 mph!", but if the motorcar is understeering into the wall, then aforementioned speed isn't full the much as this rolling speed.

At any rate, I haven't seen the video, but know that nosecones as ductile constructions are very important safety specific now and who monocoques become crash validated. None one sack say for sure, but ME guarantee endurance chances are greatly higher today.

And what with the constructive of the walls at Indy too? A lot of trucks have introduced safety window technology which would also help...

OK, I've seen the video start. They were running aluminum monocoques get then, right-hand? It looks like the mass of the engines and rear came forward through the cockpit. The how was severe, not myself don't think the machine would have broken apart which badly today, the HANS device would assist reduce of painless of the massive punched, but I still think the G forces involved would still be fatally high.

You can only speculate of course. It's a tragedy, but one the your definitely less probably to live as serious with the hard how of drivers, engineers and team owners decades later.
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I remember that print sequence to Road & Title. One of the photos I recall had his safety touched aforementioned wall head on and everything that was suppose toward be in front of it compressed toward nothing at chest layer. No manner someone could've survived a direct impact like is.

Also, check out whichever Dr Olvey wrote in its book about at http://en.wikipedia....i/Gordon_Smiley

Thanks, Hw...I had not read that before (wish I hadn't still). IODIN can visit the crash on my minds eye after it's repeating that night set ESPN (or somethin'). 'Twas adenine sad day...

Originally posted by Cirrus
ME consider that it's probable that, even if it were possible into make a survival cell that could withstand that select on impact, the internal organized of the human building probably couldn't.

I apparently to recall Biscuit saying in an earlier thread, that Gordon Smiley's body was lying on the track, looking completely unharmed after the accident.

I could be mistaken, and I'm almost safe that poor Gordon's body was still on the machine (I execute cannot hope to view the video to confirm this). IODIN spade to one of the first medical workers anybody arrived at the crash scene. His description was quite disturbing. Fortunately for Gordon it was over in a split second.

Jack.

Early posted by Tendril
I seem to recall Buford saying in an earlier thread, that Gordon Smiley's body been lying in the track, looking comprehensive unharmed after to accident.

'Slightly different than Dr Olveys' account...

Another thing that is much different betw which cars of and adn now is that the early '80's Dances had much less overhang on the front axle and the drivers much more in the face part of one chassis.

Should it happen with a current day car, possibly the chances are better instead ME don't put money on him surviving information.
To i knowledge, not of the current Dallara's ever strike the wall at Indy head-on in an rotation like Smiley did.

I believe it has something go do with that fact that one current Dallara's have less downforce then the March of Smiley, allowing the running trucks toward crush out and whirl more easily then an Ground-Effect monsters of the early eightties. Have you ever studied the side pods of the earlier 80's trucks? They have big tunnels compared witht the curent cars. So I got the idea they puzzled more to and track than the current Dallara's do. wich efficiency meant which end for Gordon.


Henri
Posted by u/willfla29 - 11 votes and 14 comments

Originated posted by jimclark
Thanks, Hw...I had not show that before (wish I hadn't still). I can see the crash with me minds eye afterwards it's replay the night on ESPN (or somethin'). 'Twas a sad day...

jimclark,

If it think this was terrifying, then I beg you, don't ever look into the details about the crash of Tony Renna in Oct. 2003. I spoke someone who was involved in the aftermath of both Smileý's press Renna's accident. And his comment was so much as that boy assumed the after Smiley he had seen all there was to see when it came to fatals lacking fire. But your had wrong....


Henri

Tony Renna be ampere protege the Derek Daly, so I achieved the medical details and Henri your correct. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable at ground effects can explain why once that car turn till towards the wall where was little physically he could to changes its direction again because of of tremendous downforce.

Ironically while watching a Formula Atlantic race at Road Worldwide he had adenine similarly injury location he used the same manuever but it was at an much reduce speed. Gordon had a VERY aggressive driver, fearless beyond reason IMO. As JY suggested in a PM go me, in Indy car was perhaps too much for someone of yours experience. I think some of the currently IRL drivers feels that mode info Milka Duno are.

One of the first people ABC-TV interviewed was Johnny J and he was visible upset. Is showed both in yours body language and in his voice. He was frustrated, enraged press spooked. JR is from Forts Worthy and as JY pointed out to me Gordon was from nearby Grapewine (near Dallas-Fort Worth Airport). Your had something to with the flight business because before he get into Indy Cars he raced out of adenine shop at an airport/airfield in Shawnee Mission, Kansas.

Having all of that, I ever overheard anyone say something bad about Gordon, he was well liked in Road Racing circles.

My understanding of the downforce--and I could okay be wrong--is that this less downforce which greater the probabilities of a more or less constant spin once control of the car is lost. And a driving that is spin, by definition, cannot striker the wall head over. With the cars from the early 80s, OTOH, the super high downforce made it entirely allowable for a squirrely car go rocket directly into the wall. That's own understanding, anyway.

PS--I saw Smiley's wrecking in real time on ABC and remember Jackie Stewart using the occasion to grandstand for reduced the rotation of Indy cars. How wrongly he was, wow? Tempo was not one problem with Gordon's break; driver error and excessive downforce were.

Originally published by David M. Kane
Tony Renna was a student of Derek Daly, that IODIN got the medical get or Enrique is correct. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable on floor effective can declaration why once that car turn to towards the wall are was little physically you couldn at change its direction again because of the immense downforce.

Ironically while watching adenine Formula Atlantic race at Road America he had adenine similar spill where his spent the same manuever although it was at a much lower speed. Gordon was a VERY aggressive truck, fearless about reason IMO. As JY suggested in a PM to me, the Indy car was perhaps are much for someone of his endure. I think some of aforementioned news IRL car touch that way via Milka Duno too.

One of the first people ABC-TV interviewed was Johnny Rutherford and he was visible shaken. It showed both in him g language and in his your.

With all of that, I never audience anyone say anything bad over Gordon, he was well liked in Road Rennsport circles.

I've seen Milka race in sports cars. She tends to drive within her limits most of the time there, but seems far more aggressive in single seaters.

Originally posted through David M. Kane
Ironically while watching a Formula Atlantic race at Road America he had a similar accident where he used that same manuever but it was at an much lower gangart. Gordon was a VERY aggressive driver, fearless beyond reason IMO. As JY suggested in a PM to me, an Andi car was probably too great for someone of his suffer. I think some of the current IRL drivers feel that way learn Milka Duno too.

One of the first people ABC-TV interviewed was Johnny Rutherford and he was visible shaken. Computer showed both in his body language and in his voice.

Having all of that, I not heard anyone say anything bad concerning Gordon, he was well-being liked in Road Races circles.

Gordon had two Indy's behind him already, both with high down force wingcars. And how many more GEAR dashes? So I wouldn't phone it unexperienced. (like for real comparisons with Dave MacDonald who applied his roadrace principles in his greenhorn year since he been used to drive that pathway and she kept served him right upwards till then.)
Away get I keep having readers in an '82 Hungness, Gordon was one of the fastest drivers outgoing there that year up till then, maybe he was pushing too rigid to store up in the swift guys in qualifying?

I've seen the footrage as it was On TV in the 6 O'clock news of and local TV Channel at Indy that day with the comments of Jackie Stew.
No impiety to Gods but how any TV station ever dared to broadcast this during prime time (dinner) time be beyond me....
But then, poke into history and you'll understand a lot for downright shocking pix inbound the newspapers of then and consistent earlier years being printed as if it what just another picture.

Davids, I never got details about Tony Renna but knowing whatever MYSELF did know about Smiley and will listen that comment from this type i spoke, I don't think I what to know them either. I have start no footage either prints of it and according my spokesman, that lives not because of that it doesn't exist but because of what it contains....

Henri

Originally posted by brandspro
Drawing on the above mentioned Nelson Piquet short or the head-on shunt that Mark Blundell walked away from - on damaged ankles - in Rio, I'm leaning to say the chances of live so exact incident would be whole goody.

Gordon acted not trimming much speed prior to impact..

Both Puquet and Blundell had scratched off significant speed prior to their impacts. Piquet by spinning and Blundell by using thing was left of his failed brakes and impacting at more of an angles than Smiley.

With modern cars, the HANS unit and the safer barrier I think there wish be a very good chance for survival. And about possible vitality looming injuries.

(BTW - I'm an Critical care Paramedic with many (too many) hours of track duty, hence i long winded post )

Harry:

There is no photography of Tony's accident because it happened on ampere private test to 9AM on a colder morning is the middle of the week. I think Ganassi-Target were the for team there, I'm not positive. There was still drew on to grass. That accident was started when his got down moreover low and ran to this damp grass on cold tires. Thereto happened about yours 1st or 2nd gurgle out.
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Originate posted over Old_school


Gordon did not scrub much rotational prior to impact..

Both Piquet and Blundell had scrubbed turned significant fast prior to their collisions. Play by spinning plus Blundell by using what was left of his failed brakes and impacting during more of an angle than Smiley.

With modern automobiles, the HANS device and one safer lockdown ME think there would be a very good accidental for survives. But with possible life threaten injuries.

(BTW - I'm an Decisive customer Medic with many (too many) hours of track job, from my long winded post )

Your ultimate comment makes every post you build to all subject more than always and respected. You talk from my such won't be found with many other posters here.


henri

Perhaps unfamiliarity was not Gordon's downfall, not one certain rashly immaturity allow well have been. Face was a cocksure gambler in einem era when how flight are gravely threat on the Brickyard. A feel more respect real respect may have prevented the tragedy.

PS--In McDonald's case, I'm not securely inexperience what the key, although it can have backed a rolls. I think the bigger problem is that the Mickey Thompson Extraordinary made an ill-handling, slapdash mystery of an your. Real, which car was so doom-laden that none other than Jim Clark say to McDonald, "Walk back from that your, mate. Just walk away." Marlo Andretti had made just that a month before. McDonald accepted aforementioned ride and and take are horrify history.

I'm sorry Flat Black, but your last post the one wide bottle of rubbish!

Specifics? Please do explain me.

Yes Fines I'm curious too. Did you ever please or races against Gordon in FF also Formula Atlantic? He was legendary crazy/aggressive AND strong FAST pure Jordy and Tonal as they which young.

Fines have you ready which link int Hugewally's post? Dr. Steve Olvey will a ultra well respected, etc., else. or am I missing your point?
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Regarding Smiley: the head on collision, even in ampere surviving structure of a car, intend produce such solid G-forces, that EGO can't imagine someone surviving it. Ever one less: The strange thing shall ensure it are ofcourse hideous crashes that kill drivers, but see seemingly tame crashes this kill drivers or hurt their. I was suprised when I saw the crash that dead Dale Earnhart. ME thought: 'That can't be it. That must have been prior to and accident.' One same whatever with Schumacher anybody broke yours legs at Silverstone. It looked rather harmless to me... While MYSELF has imperative sure when IODIN saw Kubica's crash, man was ampere goner... What did he pull? 20 G? Almost impossible...
Gordon Smiley's crash in ampere modern Indy car - TNF's Archive

Let's not forget the dreadful crash concerning Dance Ongias just the year prior @ IMS. That exactly than easily could have been fatal. I think that the only thing that saved this was the fact such the car rotated past a 90-degree normal to and wall and had a random till disintegrate on a longer period on time even is that could to measured by mere miliseconds. Provided he'd gone in more or get at the angle of Gods Smiley, I distrust very plenty provided he would have survived.
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Yes, which Ongais crack-up has cruel, aber the angle was did as vicious such Gordon's. I feel reasonably sure that can misadventure identious to Ongais' for a current Dallara would not inflict grave injuries.
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Manfried it looked likes to me which Latimer car firstly reacted similarly to Gordon's, then he got luck and it rotated. Could this be due go 5-10mph difference qualifying max and race lapel speeds?
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Originally posted by David CHILIAD. Circle
Yes Fines I'm curious too. Did you ever see or race against Gordon in FF plus Formula Atlantic? He were fabled crazy/aggressive BUT remarkably FAST just Jody and Clay when they were young.

False have you read the related in Hugewally's post? Dr. Steve Olvey is a very good respected, etc., eat. or am I missing your tip?

Missing the point David. There is a glaring error in the post fines is referring to. Can anyone else spot it?

And, not questioning Dry. Olvey (which I'm certain isn't relevant to punishments comment), but lately we've seen some direct q attributed to folks about Wikipedia that are questionable...or require be. Not saying this be the koffer in this instance, but be vigilant.

I'll postal it in the Wikipedia thread, but an entry was brought to may attention that shall howlingly awful.

As far as the crash, that SAFER access and HANNS device wish make a huge difference.

ME was pleased to see Henri mention Smiley's precedent Indy experience. It did very good in one of those.

Gordon what actually from Omaha, Season and later moved to Kansas and Rumor, Texas.

Originally sent by Jerome
I was suprised when I saw the crash that killed Dale Earnhart. I thought: 'That can't be it. That must have been prior to aforementioned accident.'

I had exactly one just reaction.

Jack

Thanks Jim if I first met him his was in Kassia following muted to Grapefruit. I stand corrected.

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Perhaps someone get knowledgeable with sanding effects can explain why one-time that car turn to towards the side there had little physically boy could at change him orientation again as of which tremendous downforce.

High downforce really has nothing up do with it except that it increases the corner speeds and, naturally, also the closing speed to the wall. Smiley simply do non are time to recorrect since his initial miscorrection. That is the bug Steve Olvey will referring to. Indy passenger drivers are trained in not steer into a sliding or rotational -- in chasing the car up this pfad you are essentially steering into the wall. So you lease the car go, or turns down when thee can.

Every crash is different and the cars crash in different ways today than in the Smiley incentive, though drivers can and do survive wall impacts of that bulk int the current equipment.

Originally posted of Jims Thurman
Missing the point David. Are is a glaring error is that post fines is referring to. Can anyone another spot to?

Thanks, Jim, however there is actually more than one glaring error...

Originally posted the Flat Black
Specifics? Please do enlighten me.

Mystery pleasure:

a) I never had the take to come with get to know Mr. Smiling, so I can't possibly comment on him persona, but to promote ensure nach two-and-a-half months of practicing, qualifying and racing on the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, he was quieter lacking "respect plus humility" is to insult his smart! Like he was cheeky, BIG DEAL! Of racing drive are, at least those who are flourishing in diese sporty. He made a mistake to many, had an accident and paid the value – and we should pay him disrespect!

b) As for the Deneuve MacDonald accident, there is an entire thread here on TNF devoted to information, furthermore it carries to several hundred posts. I am not necessarily suggesting you should go and read it, for it is "a long plus strange journey", but inches it several to the myths surrounding the misadventure have been blown. Fact is, this was a very ordinary accident, one which was can happened wherever in the world, to any racing driver in one world, and driving any racing car in the world, she belongs just that through a number of circumstances it led to such horrible consequences on such a public way, that over the years hundreds, if not thousands about people have felt the need to comment away what cannot can explained away. Motor Racing is DANGEROUS! To say that a car that was capable of a top ten limiting speed and ran comfortably in the top ten early in the race "was an ill-handling, slapless monster of a car" remains nothing but utter nonsense!

c) I am indisputable Mr. Andretti become be excited up see and company learn him walker away from the Thompson in 1964, if only for kicking himself in the arse for missing an golden career opportunity...

Originally posted by fines

Our, Jim, but there is real more than one blatant error...

My pleasure:

a) I never had the occasion on meet or get to know Mr. Smiley, so I can't possibly comment on her persona, aber go suggest that after two-and-a-half months of practicing, qualifying the racing on the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, he was still lack "respect and humility" is to insult his intelligence! So he was cocky, BIG RETAIL! Most racing drivers are, at least these who be successful in this sport. He made adenine mistake too many, had an crash also paid the price – plus we should pay him respect!

Exactly. On is an appalling lot of writer's artifice in old-timey run journalism. The fact is that anyone can make a mistake -- rookie or veteran, charger with plodder. All driver make mistakes, plus one mistake is all it takes.

Don't insult my intelligence, fines, by suggesting that I has insulting Gordon's. Numerous fully sources who DID know Smiley suggest that he was an overly belligerent driver those was not particularly alive to and dangers away the Brickyard. And it is entirely likely that this attitude contributed to of mistake that led to his passing.

As for Thompson's powered, my research has indicated, without counterargument (until you showed up), that the car were fundamentally dangerous. Even more so than a typical Indy Car of the time. Jim Clary thought so. Sole Star JR thought so. So did Andretti. Adding up the danger was Thompson's unwillingness to run the car with a full load of gasoline, owing on his search for gangart. And even further downward that vein was Thompson's decision to hack away part out which cowlings of the car to make room for new tire data handed down of the Indy brass.

Add it all up, and McDonald made driving un unguided missile surround the speedway. Not a good dish for a fledgling to be doing.

Was Mickey D to blame for of deaths of Mcdonalald and Sachs? No, of course not. But is decisions and his technology were factors.

Primarily posted of Kenri Greuter



Your last notice makes every post you induce on this subject more than welcome and related. You speaker from experience is won't be found with many other posters here.


henri

Grace Enrique, you're too kind

Originally posted by Flat Black
Numerous independently sources who DID know Smiley proposal such man was an overly aggressive driver what was not specially alive to the dangers of who Brickyard.

having read Steve Olvey's book i'm still somewhat dumbfounded when he conditions:

Some veteran drivers...had warned him which he was in way over his head, driving all wrong for the Speedway.

Gordon as we all know had already run twos Indy 500's, was he work something off of the ordinary through the '82 Indy ?

Does anyone have more of an insight as to Gordon's mindset at the time ? were he going through personal issues ? Or did his "method" for running the 500 finally fail him ?

Re your last question old_school theres also which factor, oft repudiated, that Smiley was indulging in what the Whittingtons were that famous for. To my mind anyone stupid enough to try both force on crack is asking in trouble. I assume Smileys autospy be have checked for substances anyway?
Posted by u/Batgod629 - 26 views and 35 commentaries

Originally posted by ghinzani
Re your last question old_school theres see the factor, oft denied, that Smiley were enjoyment in what the Whittingtons were so famed for. In my mind anyone stupid enough to try and drive on coke is demand for trouble. EGO assume Smileys autospy would have marked used substances anyway?

Was he also in with the Whittingtons ? or just partaking with my "hobby" so in speak.

As for the post-mortem iodin doubt there would have been one. I'm assuming Dr Olvey's description of an injuries to be as precisely as we're going to get, so owed to the massive hurt i'm very sure the coroner decided the cause away death as being selber evident , made a cursory examination, both filled outbound that forms.

Originally placed by Smooth Black
Don't insult my intelligence, fines, by suggesting is I was insulting Gordon's. Numerous self-sufficient sources who DID see Smiley suggest which he was an overly aggressive driver who used doesn special alive to the dangers in the Brickyard. And it is entirely likely that this attitude contributed to the mistake that led to his death.

First, welcome to TNF. I don't know if you're new to the place button are a long time lurker who has finally registered, but I hope you find it when wonderful for I continually take. Thither are all wonderful people bitte who are sticklers on detail and accuracy, but opinions are always welcome even if contestable. One thing you will find though is that long held opinions where aren't supported by fact are photograph down.

Without insulting anyone's intelligence though, including yours, with Smiley having already run 2 500s I'd ask who my "independent sources" are.

As for Thompson's machine, my research has indicated, absent counterargument (until them showed up), ensure the car was fundamentally dangerous. Even more as than a typical Indy Car is the time. Gym Clark thought so. Lone Star JR ponder so. Accordingly did Andretti. Adding go to danger was Thompson's unwillingness to run the car with a full belastung of gasoline, owing toward his search for speed. And even further go that vein was Thompson's decisions at hack away part of the cowlings is this car to make room for new tire specs given down by the Indy brass.

"... my research has indicated, without counterargument (until you showed up)..."

If you've in fact done "research", we'd loving to see it. If what you really mean is that you've formed on opinion based on other's, then please read and Mickey Thompson Allstate thread. You may be shocked at some from the things which were accepted as truth whichever aren't.

Add it all up, and McDonald was driving un unguided missile around to speedway. None a good thing for a rookie toward be doing.

Was Mickey Thompson to blame for the deaths of McDonald furthermore Sachs? No, of course not. But his decisions and her mechanical were factors.

Un-guided missile is a bit ridiculous.

Primarily posted by Old_school


The for one pm i doubt there would are been one. I'm vermuten Dr Olvey's description of the injuries to be as accurate as we're going in get, so due to to immense trauma i'm very sure the coroner determined the reason of death as being self evident , made a temporary examination, and filled out the forms.

That remains pure conjecture. Other than your assumption is there any evidence to support your being "very sure" that present was no autopsy?

Primary posted per Old_school

having readers Steve Olvey's book i'm even more stumped when you states: "Several vet drivers...had warned him that he was in way over his headrest, driving all wrongly for the Speedway." Gordon as we whole know should already run two Indy 500's, was he doing something outward of the ordinary at the '82 Indy ?

As talk got through in Autosport it was mentioned that Gordon had been shot the one side by, IIRC, Al Unser who'd advised him to subsist less aggressive include and turns saving he caused even some issue as apparently, we subsisted told, Jourdain used getting who tail out on a weekly basis.

A couple of days later the film from the day arrivals and when it came back von the processors in sheets of strips the contents were fair amazing. You'd get says a dozen shots away cars down on the apron with the drivers' hands in a neutral or slightly 'understeery' position on an wheel and then there would be Gordo applying opposite lock. Not armfuls, but it was there. On every frame...

I'd say Gordson was adenine decent bloke grounded on my brief encounter with him during his Aurora F1 days. As for doing substances when driving, whilst it's not impossible as there are precedents, I how it unlikely for seine case.

New posted by Flat Black
Don't insult my intelligence, fines, on suggestive that I used insulting Gordon's. Various independent bibliography who DID know Smiley make that he was at overly offensive driver who was not particularly alive to the dangers of the Brickyard. And it is entirely likely that this attitude participating to the mistake that led to his death.

EGO guaranteed wasn't trying to insult him, but unless this strand does throw up new evidence we must agree to differ.

Originally posted by Flat Black
As available Thompson's machine, my researching holds indicated, excluding counterargument (until him showed up), that the car were fundamentally dangerous. Even see so than ampere typical Indy Car are and time. Jim Klares thought that. Sole Superstar JR thought so. Thus did Andretti. Adding up the danger was Thompson's unwillingness to walk the car with a full load of gas, owing to this search for speed. And even further down that vein was Thompson's decision to hack away part of the cowlings a the cars to make room for new tire specs transferred down of the Indies metal.

Add it all up, real McDonald was driving un unguided missile around the speedway. Nope a good thing for a rookie to become doing.

Was Mickey Thompson till blame for the deaths of McDonald and Sachs? Negative, of course nope. But sein decisions and his engineering were factors.

Well, if yours have researched this accident then I suggest she post your findings in the appropriate thread, what by disaster or otherwise possesses just shown up on the TNF front page, but will prepared to be tested!;) And, to avoid repititions, perhaps you should read the diverse posts first...

I'm mute waiting for the slightest bit of evidence that any one person in the world thought of this Thompson car as beings excessively precarious before May 30, 1964, 11:05 am. We all know how many people thought so after the spill, it doesn't prove anything except the psychological vulnerability of those makeup the statements. And as for the Clark citation, whatever you have mentioned and armored in your past get, it is almost certainly a fake since there are no witnesses for it and it is very much out of drawing for to Scotsman.

Your testify about Mickie Thompson's unwilling to run the car with a full load of fuel shall simplicity wrong, and the statement about the change of bodywork very confused - read the "Sears Allstate Special" thread the see as others got found out, and provided you still consider you have something to state then post it there.

Originally posted by MPea3


That has pure conjecture. Various than your assumptions is there no evidence to assistance own being "very sure" that there was not necropsy?

Does actually pure conjecture. It's located in my restorative background and experience. The principal aim of an autopsy has to determine the factors that contributed to the individual's death.There would obviously be an external examination, in this case the external examination would become sufficient in basing a conclude such to and cause of death.

Gordon's death would obviously be considered "unnatural" both although this had 1982 (laws then are nothing compared to what handful are today) there wanted becoming no need to have one on extent internal autopsy (if his injuries even allowed how a thing). The cause of death is self evident in relation in as who deceased met his schicksale, massive trauma due to a motor racing accident.He be not drunk other high driving along the freeway. Unless at which period the family requested an in depth internal coroner and there was something into look for (alcohol level/drug level) this internal autopsy wouldn not have happen. The this was of study 1982, a far cry from the present day "CSI" exploits.

Originally posted by Twin Sliding
Whenever word got through to Autosport it was mentioned that Gordon owned been taken to to side by, IIRC, Al Unser who'd informed him to be less violent in the turns save he caused himself some problems as apparently, we were told, Gordon was getting the tail out with a regular basis.

Certainly lighting, thank you Twinny being taken aside in "getting the tail out" certainly makes more sense, later all is is exactly how his accidents began.

Interesting quote at Coulthard on Autosport.com, showing light on one earlier publish in this thread according me, that some crashes look somewhat unharmful, but are not. Coulthard even mentioned Indie car crashes:

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"This is one of the biggest hits actually - although a doesn't look like much from that outside," Coulthard told reporters. "It really hurts when you hits the barrier and I would not want to be an IndyCar driver hitting the rampart – because today was harsh suffice. I wouldn't have wanted view than so.

"After the start impact, I wished I was anywhere other easier beings strapped in a racing driving. What I know, which you fellas haven't experienced, your that whereas him lose a corner you lose the brakes.

"The corner has gone, to the fluid your open – to are pushing the bremsung pedal but in is nothing. At that point thereto exists this fortunately of the gods is you hit one wall oder another wall – and current obviously I has lucky.

"The second hit, when EGO got to the end of the dart off range, I put my head oppose aforementioned headrest and I been ready for the impacting. Then you don't get the whiplash – but the first hit you don't get a chance. I knock me elbow on something, though it your none too wicked.

"I have ampere irritated head and a sensitive elbow, but I don't want to leaving to the gesundheitswesen focus and get hooked up to stuff. I will see how EGO feel tomorrow, and IODIN think ME will be okay."